Excerpt from Karen Cliche's Official Forum 3/2/04
03-02-2004, 07:17 PM
hi everyone. i see you all have been busy with your postings. i love that this is a happy , friendly place! i am still in los angeles, actually just did some voice overs for the season 3 dvd that will come out soon. i am having dinner with vicky pratt, my fav mutant ever tomorrow night and maybe with forbes too, who is in town as well! it`ll be a hoot! keep smilin and i will be answering those questions posted when i have time when i get home. all my luv, k. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
© Karen Cliche
S3 DVD Commentary for "Into the Moonless Night" by actress Karen Cliche (Lexa Pierce) and episode's director Philip Segal
Phil: Welcome to "Into the Moonless Night," episode 301, the season 3 premiere of Mutant X. I am the head of production for Tribune and the director of this episode, and I’m here today with one of the actors, Karen Cliche.
Karen: Yes, I’m here tagging along for the day. I play Lexa Pierce, by the way.
Phil: So here we are in the opening of the episode. This is obviously the realization that we’ve lost Emma and that the team is going to be split apart. One of the things to notice here, which I think is really interesting, is that we shot this entirely inside a sound stage, and it is supposed to be several hours after the end of the last episode of season 2, where we shot that entirely in the snow. So one of the difficulties we had, obviously, was trying to tie these two scenes together given the fact that one starts in the summer, this show, and one ended in the snow. So that was something very difficult, but I think we pulled it off pretty well. This was obviously a difficult time for these three actors because we were introducing a new character and they didn’t know really how they felt. It’s always a difficult transition when you’re moving from one actress to another or one actor to another, because emotions are running high and it’s difficult for everybody to sort of settle down. But I think they did a really nice job.
Karen: Yeah, everyone was so great in terms of being so accepting in that way of me. And thank God, because that could’ve gone really wrong.
Phil: Could’ve been very ugly.
Karen: Well, because in the end they lost their co-star and they lost a character.
Phil: Right, right.
Karen: So, nah. They were great.
Phil: Well, and you were wonderful as well.
Karen: Stop it, Phil.
Phil: You were very accepting of the challenge, and you came in and I think you made yourself part of the family very quickly.
Karen: Yeah, it was very easy to.
Phil: So this is obviously the show open and we obviously find ourselves in a situation where we’re looking for Adam and Emma. And we had some difficulty with these scenes because all of the scenes that we shoot inside the interior of the Helix are sort of bundled together and done at the end of a day, so it’s really difficult to get the actors’ energy up to do those kinds of scenes, but they did a good job. This was actually, interestingly enough, shot in sequence, so this was the next scene that was shot on the first day of production of the first episode, this episode. So after we’d shot all the emergency footage, we moved over to do this scene.
Karen: I’ll bet that helps a lot.
Phil: It does. I mean, in terms of timeline, it made it much easier for them to focus and I thought they did a really nice job of settling down and getting into the mode. What was really difficult about this scene was that whenever you have to take people to a place where emotions are running really high, there’s a technical glitch and everyone has to do it all over again, it just sucks the energy out of the room. And this was one of those situations where we had two cameras running on a track and we had some technical difficulties. But their performance was so good we decided to keep the cameras rolling, but it’s very difficult to get them to come back to that place. But I think they did a very nice job. Victoria Pratt–-
Karen: She’s really good at that stuff, going to that emotional place. She’s really good.
Phil: Yeah. And she did a really nice job hanging in there with us and getting back to where she was on the first couple of takes. And it’s hard because, if you can imagine, here she is trying to come to grips with the fact that someone has died in her life, a personal friend, and you can hear lights clicking and cameras banging, and it’s very difficult. But she stayed in the moment very well.
Karen: And it’s a nice moment to have for these two, you know, it’s a good set up for the rest of the season. That closeness.
Karen: And it’s good that she’s showing such emotion because of Emma. Because right away, the team goes on this mission to find out all this stuff and they don’t mourn for very long. It’s nice to have this moment where they actually do take the time to remember her.
Phil: Right, right. And that was one of the things that we struggled with in developing this script was–-
Karen: How much time do you spend with that?
Phil: Exactly, exactly. When do you sort of say it’s time to move on? But I think that one of the things that we tried to do this season, and I think accomplished quite well, was to pull back the onion on the characters a bit more, and give them a bit more time to tell us how they feel and how they’re thinking.
Phil: This was also great fun for me on a personal level because I got a chance to work with Tom McCamus –- McCamus who plays Mason Eckhart.
Karen: He’s so great.
Phil: He’s just this wonderfully talented actor.
Karen: And such a sweet man too. So great.
Phil: He is, but enjoys playing Mason Eckhart and obviously he was the villain of this piece. That was a lot of fun. And he really enjoys playing this character so much that there isn’t anything he won’t do. This is a new set for us this year, by the way. This is an interior street scene that we constructed and I think in hindsight, we wish we had built more of these streets and probably will in the future.
Karen: Saved a lot of us shooting outside in Toronto winter.
Phil: Well, it does. And it allows us to shoot night during the day, and we just get a lot more accomplished.
Karen: And it looks so real!
Phil: It was good fun. You can actually see the stage doors back there.
Phil: And there’s our crazy bum actor. Apparently, that’s one of the best crazy bum actors in Toronto, and he sort of shows up in wardrobe, in makeup, ready to go.
Karen: Do we know it’s wardrobe and makeup? That’s the question.
Phil: Well, we didn’t when he showed up. We thought he’d lost his way. But he did that very well. So obviously, the introduction of Eckhart. This scene was actually shot on the very last day of production, on the seventh day–we get seven days to shoot these shows–and we brought back obviously a couple of other characters. That’s Mr. Pain standing next to him, and he’s played by Richard Stroh. We called the character Silver [sic], but his ability is to obviously create pain in people. The story points are oftentimes very difficult to get across in short scenes.
Karen: But very necessary because the whole season is dependant on them.
Phil: So it’s very wonderful that when you listen to Tom as his dialogue sort of speeds up as he realizes, “Okay, a lot more information to get out!” She he really has a lot of fun with that. So character development is obviously a very important part of our process and it can take a long time for us to start to roll out new characters and carve out additional areas of interest we want to go into in existing characters. This is the introduction of Lexa Pierce, played by the lovely Karen Cliche. She is an elemental; she can bend light. And we first met Karen on a series we did with Galan Herd called...
Karen: Adventure Inc.
Phil: And we really got to know Karen and enjoyed working with her. We felt that she would make a very powerful contrast to Victoria and we asked her to join us. And she reluctantly said yes, and we’re thrilled that she did. This wasn’t her first day of production, so she’d had a chance to settle down a little bit.
Phil: I wasn’t personally crazy about the wardrobe choice for the first day.
Karen: No, me neither. Looking back, I don’t know what I was thinking.
Phil: I kind of went along with it, but I’m actually disappointed with the way it came out. I thought we could have done it a little better.
Karen: It took a while to kind of figure out, how hard is she going to be? It took a good few episodes to really mold the character and find a style for her.
Phil: Well, this is obviously a very challenging episode for you because you were finding your character.
Karen: Oh yeah.
Phil: And having to deal with--
Karen: I was in a new place. It was the first time I was using my power. We had no idea, remember, pretty much on that day we were saying, well how do I give off these blasts of light? Well, how’s this? How’s this? Does this look cool?
Phil: Well, you know, trying to figure out what your power was going to be and how you were going to use it was all, obviously a lot of that was dictated by visuals. You know we needed the powers to be very visual, because obviously it’s a visual medium. And so we came up with the idea of your being able to bend light. But why don’t you tell us a little bit about how that process has grown?
Karen: Well, apart from being extremely useful in many situations, being able to lurk around–because she was, she was lurking around in the very beginning here, getting to know each character. That’s why when she appears she says, “You guys give up easy.” But it’s great to have that power because she can be obviously in places where no one sees her. And then the lasers, she can control the balance of powers in her lasers to kill or hurt, or the flashes of light to blind.
Phil: I love the slight sarcastic edge that we gave your character. I mean, I know that a lot of thought was put into that. A lot of people talked about the fat that what Victoria, who I know, was asked about her character perceived to be a lot softer than she was developed. But I don’t think we gave you the edge to fill the void sort of inherent in you. You sort of feel that the level of sarcasm, that edge, comes out of the character sort of naturally.
Karen: Yeah, and it’s great because it brings out so much frustration, as we see with Brennan too. She creates such a power struggle with the others and it’s nice because they all get along so well, they’ve all gotten along so well all these years and then just to throw this attitude in the mix.
Phil: And you know the contrast with Vicky, it’s not so much that we softened her up as we tried to make her more of a feral. A cat who has darker moments and has lighter moments, sort of try to bring out more of her sexuality by taking her in that direction. But the contrast is nice between the two of you, and I think that has stayed throughout the season.
Karen: Yeah. You know, what’s nice was that it wasn’t ever played to be catty, whereas you’d expect it to go that way with two girls. It was more of a struggle between Brennan and Lexa, two tough people wanting to win.
Phil: Right. One of the things you'll see here is that we're doing this entire walk during this scene. A lot of the show centeres on the difficutly of production and a lot of page count has to be shot on this Sanctuary set in order to justify the cost of building it, and also the realities of physical production. But I have to say, Depei Alvain is a really really smart cinematographer and I thought he did a really terrific job of letting me use the space and also carving out some interesting light for us.
Phil: Which I think sets it up beautifully.
Karen: Wow, I remember being so nervous here, you know. Because I just had no idea honestly what I was talking about most of the time, and here I am in this first episode delivering all this information and having been around a long time as this character, supposedly. And in the back of my head, as I'm saying these lines, saying "ugh."
Phil: But I think it worked on some level, because that lack of trust and that disconnect really plays very well here, I think. There's a level of believability that comes with the fact that you guys are not comfortable with each other.
Karen: Yeah, totally. Which was true, in a sense.
Phil: Real. So I think it really played very well because they're sort of the insiders and you're the outsider. But I think I really like the way this episode came together, and I was very pleased with the script. I thought that Peter Mohan, our executive producer, also the writer of this episode, did a really nice job of telling a story and also introducing this character, because it was not easy to do.
Karen: Yeah, I don't know. It's a hard thing to--how do you write, between mourning and introducing all this information, and it was a big episode to do.
Phil: Yeah, it is, it is. And I think it came together very well.
Karen: Hm. My first experience in the Helix.
Phil: Yeah. Now this was interesting because this scene was cut quite radically, actually. This scene was supposed to be a little more complex in terms of the dialogue, but we'd run out of time, and I think oftentimes you make lemonade out of lemons, but I like the way this scene actually came together, because I think oftentimes we try to say too much, and yet we say nothing.
Phil: This was the first shot of the first day of the series.
Karen: This was my first day.
Phil: Yeah, and this was your first day with us. Kinda nice to be outside.
Karen: I was so hot in that latex jacket.
Phil: You know, in looking at the finished episode, I'm really pleased with the way it looks. It's always difficult to get a sense for how a show is going to come together until it's actually polished and finished. Especially when your dealing with so many makeup effects and blocking issues. One of the things you'll notice here is in this scene, we will have the four mutants plus we have Eckhart and his henchmen. And everyone has to be covered. You'll see here we are in wideshot. So you have less than an hour to actually shoot this scene, and the camera has to move all over that particular area to cover this scene and get the inserts and close-ups and tell the story and do the stunts, so it's really important that everybody stay focused and try to move it along. And I must say, this crew does a wonderful job at keeping it all moving because it's a lot to do with a little amount of time.
Karen: Yeah. I have to say, this crew was the best crew I've ever worked with.
Phil: They're fun. They're fun, and they do enjoy it. This was the only part of this that didn't work at all. Heree we have this sort of Speedy Gonzales mutant and we needed a little more time to tell his story, and we rand out of time. So there were some shots missing, but I think it works quite well. This guy right here is--
Karen: Oh, God. Here's what happened. Do you remember how we did this, Phil? Remember we had like a plexiglass--
Phil: Yeah, the plexiglass.
Karen: --to run into, do you remember? I think it had rained or something and it was a little muddy. And so in rehearsal, I was running in to the plexiglass, bam, you know, repelling off of it. It was great; it worked perfectly. And then I think I just gave it my all when they said action, and I just fell right underneath the plexiglass.
Phil: You missed it.
Karen: My feet just kept going right under the plexiglass. It was so embarrassing! Like, oh, Karen Cliche here, action girl from Adventure Inc., can't even stay on her two feet.
Phil: But you were great, you got up and you were willing to do it again. So I wanted to go upstairs and shoot upstairs because we never really got a chance a lot to use the upstairs. So it was fun for me to bring the cameras upstairs and put them in a different environment. And it was fun to be up there. This is also where we're going to get a little bit more information about Lexa's character.
Phil: So obviously we're talking about conspiracy theories and what Lexa Pierce, Karen's character, knows and doesn't know. And now we're about to reveal a little part of her troubled life.
Karen: And here is where she basically tells them, you've been lied to for as long as you know. And here is where we show the implant that she has, and we learn in further episodes exactly what that implant did. It was basically she was programmed to be a killer.
Phil: I think we wanted to take this season and focus more on the science and pay a little more attention to how the constructs of why these characters were created in the first place, what it was all about. Because I think it was really important for us to help develop these characters to give them a sense of how they really feel and how they have to live and deal with the fact that they were test tube babies that were conceived for the purpose of expanding the experimental possibilities of genetic engineering.
Karen: Yeah, and what Brennan's saying right now and having to deal with it and having no choice in the matter. And to hide from society because of that.
Phil: That's exactly right. So it was really great to explore that with this scene and also push Victor Webster to really bring out some of the emotions.
Phil: Of being disconnected, not just from society, but from really feeling like you have any value at all as an individual.
Phil: So here, obviously, we're learning more about the belief system. Brennan's character believing that this is all a waste of time and wanting to just step back and re-analyze where he is in his life, and Shalimar really feeling like if this all tears apart and goes away, she has nothing left. She has no family and it really explores the realization of how and why these characters really rely and need each other. They're one giant experiment within an experiment, and that it was the sum of the parts, the four of them, that actually created one person... So this was my attempt at comedy.
Karen: What is he eating? Jerkey?
Phil: He's eating a Kit Kat. When he came to audition for this role, Jeff hadn't eaten anything and he was late. And he said, "Do you mind if I eat a candy bar?" And he started eating the candy bar.
Karen: In the audition?
Phil: Yeah. And we were running behind, so he was sort of still chomping on the candy bar while he was reading, and I really liked it. And then he apologized and wanted to read it again, and I said, "No, don't bother. You have the part."
Karen: Oh, that's great!
Phil: 'Cause I really thought that I saw raw emotion in that, and that's what I was looking for. I just liked the neurosis of it.
Phil: So that was sort of fun. So this was obviously us reintroducing something that we hadn't seen in Brennan's character, is that he came from the streets and he was a bit of a bad boy. And this is sort of reintroducing the seedy part of his world.
Karen: It's funny where you go, because now all these characters have just learned, like I said, that they've been lied to, and just their whole belief system was completely false. And now it's just falling apart. It's funny where you go as a person. Like he's now reverting to his old ways, and everyone just starts to fall apart. Lexa was a big instigator in that, and that's why there was such a resistance to her too, but you know what? She was just the bearer of truth.
Phil: This guy playing the bartender, Shean Sullivan...well, we'll talk about him in a little bit, 'cause he's coming up in another scene, but that's more relevant. Here, obviously, we're back at Sanctuary and now it's a chance for Lexa to see if she can really make some kind of connection with Jesse.
Karen: There was kind of an immediate attraction between these two guys. I think they're both intrigued by each other because they are so different.
Phil: I like the way we explored this scene and I think that Forbes March did a really nice job here in trying to play the idea that it's okay for her to let down the guard and he's not going to judge her. And it think that the message that Lexa gives him here is saying, hey, look after yourself. I really think that we did a nice job of laying out some real conspiracy theories with the disappearnace of Adam, what he was really up to. Because I think it really allowed us to turn the corner here and send the storytelling in a direction that I think really allowed it to grow this year.
Karen: Oh, totally. And I think having just wrapped this season, I loved the progression of everybody as a character. The whole story.
Phil: So here again is Sean Sullivan, and we sort of slammed him around a bit. And he was a good sport about it, but what was funny about it was that every time we did a rehearsal and he wasn't quite focused on what he was doing, and then when he went to do it, it was almost as if he'd completely forgot where he was. I think he was afraid of getting his head pounded into the bar, and all he could think about was not having to do that. It was very funny 'cause we didn't tell him we were using a stunt double 'til the very end.
Karen: Are you serious?
Phil: Yeah, we didn't tell him. He just thought we were just gonna slam his head, okay, okay. Now I like Richard Stroh. I think he's a talented actor and he had a lot of fun with his character. Originally called Pain, and obviously we identfy him as Silver [sic] here. Stepping into the chamber that started out as one thing and became something else. This is another classic example of, you know, ending up with half of what you hoped for and making the best of it. But I think that this came together quite well. The idea of trying to reenergize and reenvigorate Tom McCamus's character, Mason Eckhart. But I think one of the things you learn here is, thank God for an actor who is so talented, because Tom really made it about the character. So that we could forget about how kinda sad the fact is that all we had was just a bunch of smoke here, 'cause we couldn't do some of the other pyrotechnics we wanted to do just because of time. So it was really wonderful to have the actors sort of step up and really give us the performance that got us through this, and I think it kind of hides the fact it's just a bunch of just smoke, because it really becomes about the character.
Karen: That's funny, 'cause when I asked Victor and Forbes, when they first started to do their powers--right, 'cause they obviously add the effects in post--I was like, "How do you guys do this?" They all said you feel a little silly at first, 'cause your really just pointing and doing nothing. And you just pray that it's going to look good in the end. But that took a little while to get used to for me.
Karen: Shooting my--pointing my fingers. She worked on Adventure Inc.
Phil: Yeah, she did.
Karen: Actually, in our first episode of Adventure Inc. as well.
Phil: Yeah, she played the insurance analyst and she came in to audition for this.
Karen: I think she had just had a baby too. Right here.
Phil: Yeah. It's amazing when you look at the final cut and you see how much of the scene actually gets lifted.
Karen: This is a really cool scene, how it's shot.
Phil: This is The Voice. I love the idea of trying to see him on all of these minors and just kind of create a collage of faces. But when we went to shoot this, all they had was one monitor, and we asked if we could play back on all the other monitors, and I guess they didn't wanna do it.
Karen: And this is where you realize that Lexa's not working for herself and only for herself as she is perceived, but she does have other people behind her, kind of. She's a little resistent to this guy, who we know as The Voice right now, but she does have certain orders to follow because she does have one agenda. And you only really find out what that agenda is later in the season, but it is to find her twin brother and really find out that she's selling her soul a little bit to thse guys to find her brother.
Phil: What had happened to him? Do we know what had happened to him? Did we find out this year what happened to him?
Karen: Well, he was experimented on and captured just as I was, and we were separated from each other. And they had told me that if I do certain things then I'd find my brother again, and I fell for it. And I believed them, and they actually never did.
Phil: Did you guys ever discuss what that agenda was really about, why they did that to you?
Karen: Yeah, totally, in that episode, "Brother's Keeper," they did. That was completely explained in that episode. And it's fun because you realize that behind Lexa's big strong tough wall is just this vulnerable little girl who just wants to find her brother. And I think that's such a common character trait in people as human beings--the tougher the outside, usually, the more fragile.
Phil: Well, I like the idea that it all harkens back to the fact that at the end of the day, even though they're genetic experiments, they're human beings and they have feelings, and it's kind of nice to see how that all comes full circle.
Karen: Yeah. And Jesse's the only one who really gives her a chance, and wants to know what that's about.
Phil: So this is my favorite scene in this show, simply because I like the perverse nature of it and the quirkiness of it. The lightness of touch that Tom, playing Eckhart, brings to it. Because if you take these things too seriously, they start to be goofy, but I think that it plays with a nice tone.
Karen: That's hot. Look at [Victor Webster], all chained up.
Phil: Yeah. I wanted him to get the shirt off, but he wouldn't do it.... This great sense of irony and lightness of touch that [Tom McCamus] brings to the character, it's really just great fun.
Karen: Was this the first time you directed him?
Karen: Did you not direct any--
Phil: No, I hadn't, no.
Phil: And so it was really a delight to work with him.
Karen: I had worked with Tom on a movie called Steal.
Karen: Where he played a character called "The Creep." It was actually a few years ago, and when I knew I was coming on this, we were like, Yay!
Phil: So what we tried to do here was try to get Victor to really experience the pain of Silva's ability to inflict all this. And I think that I have to say that I think he did a really nice job in this scene. And here's our bartender. But he didn't do that--that was a double--but it cut really well.
Karen: Vicky loves these scenes.
Phil: Oh, she does. And she did a good job. He thought he was going to have his neck twisted right off. But she does have a light touch. Now we're introducing the psychic interrogator, played by Araxi Arslanian. And she's a really interesting actress, and I think, really broght another level to the scene. The funny thing was I wanted this old creepy wheelchair. I didn't want a moder motorized chair. And so they went out and found this wheelchair. We fell in love with the wheelchair, brought it to the set, she sat in it, and the thing collapsed.
Karen: Oh God!
Phil: So it was literally held together with chicken wire. And we didn't know what to do, but it held together just long enough for us to get through these scenes. But God bless her, she sat down in it and it just collapsed. Now she's wearing contact lenses here as well, and obviously, I think really enjoyed playing this role. I think she did a good job. So once again, one of our classic triangulate scenes. So I put them in a triangle 'cause it's just my idea of triangulating the triangulation.
Karen: It's just full of--did you see Vicky's face? Just like, "Oh God, what's next?"
Phil: Yeah, another one of these scenes. But you know, they're very important to moving along the show. You need it to actually physically produce these things.
Karen: No, I know. What I meant was that Lexa just keeps throwing these bombs into it, you know what I mean?
Phil: Oh yeah, I know.
Karen: She's like, "Whaddya mean, you worked for the GSA? What next?"
Phil: So here we are, back in Pain Central. So I really like the visuals in this scene, and I think they did a really nice job pulling all of this together. Our production designer on this show is really, really talented. John Blackie is his name, and he had previously done Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and worked with our producer, John Hackett. And I was trepidatious at first, because I hadn't really seen this side of him, but I think he really is a first class production designer and really brought a lot to this show. So here is this psychic mutant literally sucking the thoughts out of his head and projecting them as images in the room. And obviously the idea here is for Eckhart to try and find the location of Sanctuary. Now it was very interesting because this episode was obviously the death of Mason Eckhart and it was one of those things that we talked about for a long time. We were very concerned about killing off this character and losing our connection with the sordid past of Genomex, but we also felt that the show needed to grow and we needed to sort of close that chapter. There were all kinds of concerns here too at this moment, it was very interesting, about actually electrocuting a wheelchair-bound person.
Phil: And whether we should actually be doing that.
Karen: Well, you did it.
Phil: A lot of trimming, or attempts to trim this scene, but we kept most of it in. Then we went upstairs in this giant factory that was about to be torn down, and we only had a few days to shoot in it before they were starting to dismantle it. But I think they did a really nice job in taking us up into the bowels of this thing and being able to use the elements up there.
Karen: I'm all into this episode. I haven't seen it yet.
Phil: Looking back on it, it's a lot of fun. We put a lot into it, which is good. Now obviously what's coming up here is the big death scene of Mason Eckhart. Now what's interesting about this is that a mutant is actually going to kill someone purely out of vengeance, absolutely out of vindictiveness. And what that does to a character is what kind of takes you to a place of so much rage that you use your powers for bad.
Karen: Yeah, it's usually been out of self defense, right?
Phil: Yeah. So it was a really interesting place to take this character and really explore that, and I think we did a really nice job at doing that. And watching as he kind of comes down off of this hight of killing this guy, and the realization of your character, Karen, and Jesse's character that he'd actually killed soemone in a rage.
Karen: Yeah. I mean, we all wanna do it, and now it's done, it's like, eeehhh.
Phil: Well, I think the cast did a really nice job, and Karen, it was really wonderful working with you.
Karen: It was. It was such a great year; I had so much fun.
Phil: And I'm glad we had a chance to do it. This scene was actually directed later. Bob Cochrane directed this scene for us.
Karen: Oh, that's right.
Phil: We were struggling with how to tie up this episode and it was written a little differently. And we realized we didn't have enough story, but I'd already left and come home, so we added this scene. But I think it was an important scene to add because it did put a button on--
Karen: On the whole Emma thing, I agree.
Phil: And we needed that because the piece that you're going to see after this, of them sitting outside in front of a memorial, was actually shot on the back of a giant trailer in the parking lot.
Karen: This was made of styrofoam. It kept blowing over in the wind.
Phil: But I think again, John Blackie doing a wonderful job, but I just don't think...when we shot the scene and there was more of it...it was really just a giant eulogy to Adam and Emma. But it didn't really come together, and didn't work the way we wanted it to.
Karen: Oh, it's perfect like that.
Phil: I'm very happy with the episode.
Karen: Thanks for listening, everyone.
Phil: Yeah, thank you. Goodbye.
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